...I don’t know whether Ms. Carr realizes, but her case really started something...

Fred Gray: I filed lawsuits that, even represented Mrs. Carr in the case Carr v. The Montgomery County Board of Education. Her sons, she wanted to go to Sylvania high school, it was the premiere white high school then. Now it’s all predominantly all black, if not 101% black. But I was really disappointed and she was disappointed, her son was disappointed because in that case; while we were able to desegregate the school, she was the lead plaintiff in the case and under the freedom of choice that the state had set out Judge Johnson did not permit him to go to that school that first year. Later on, he was able to go. Even in these cases, sometimes the people who make the greater contributions don’t always get all the credit. But most people don’t know it, and I don’t know whether Ms. Carr realizes, but her case really started something that we all know about now, but we don’t know that her case was the precedent setting case. It started out as just a regular school desegregation case, and then we ended up looking at it one day, and there were principals and teachers and core faculty who were being affected, but who were not included and not represented. So I was able to get the Black Teacher Association to let us intervene then so that as we were able to get the issues involving the students resolved, we could get the issues resolving faculty and staff resolved. And we did. We had a few students in these schools but then we still didn’t have any black teachers in white schools, or vice versa. So I came up with an idea and amended the complaint and asked the court to set, to look at the total population of the school system and to come up with a way and means of having, in effect, a reasonable number of staff of the same race, in proportion to the racial composition of the whole system. Sounds familiar, sounds like proposals and timetables. The truth of the matter is, we submitted to Judge Johnson a procedure and asked him to approve ratios and timetables for the faculty and staff and he bought it, and have an order to that effect. It was appealed by the Supreme Court. And that, for the first time, the Supreme Court approved the matter of ratios and timetables, which later developed into this whole problem of people being against quotas and numerical–if you want to really determine things, you have to look at the numbers. And you look at the numbers, you can say anything you want about integrations, you can do this, you can do that, but if you have the same number you had before and after, the effect of what your doing is not (indistinct). So that was Mrs. Carr’s case, a very important case, and it is a precedent setting case, went all the way to the Supreme Court. The case started in 1963 and it went to the Supreme Court, you can take a look in Bus Ride to Justice and it will tell you when the Supreme Court ruled on it, and I do specifically talk about that as a, as one of the things that really was decided by this case.

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